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Hobadee 14 hours ago [-]
Where is all this love for coaster brakes coming from?! They are, IMHO, one of the worst brakes ever. They have caused me numerous spills and scraped knees (due to the rear wheel locking up and skidding out from under me) and have done the same to my kids. There is virtually no control over them, and they don't allow you to shift your weight around when standing on the pedals to go around sharp corners or off-road. (Nevermind trying to shift your weight backwards when stopping quickly)
I have hydraulic disc brakes on my bike, and they are the greatest thing ever! Yeah, they require maintenance, but totally worth it.
japanuspus 2 hours ago [-]
As the family bike maintainer in Scandinavia, hub gears and coaster brakes are a godsend: Simple, cheap, and the only wear item to replace after a winter driving in salty sludge is a cheap chain -- and this takes half the time if there are no brake cables to detach.
This might be a Nordic thing, but being able to handle rear wheel lockups is a necessary skill when driving on winter roads. Once you overlook a section of black ice, not even the nicest hydraulic disc brakes will be gentle enough.
fransje26 1 hours ago [-]
> Once you overlook a section of black ice, not even the nicest hydraulic disc brakes will be gentle enough.
My experience with black ice and bikes, is to unexpectedly fall flat on my face because the front wheel loses all grip. Without even getting to the point of trying to brake..
Gualdrapo 14 hours ago [-]
In my experience hydraulic disc brakes require less maintenance than rim brakes.
Living on a hill (like I had to go up a ~150m 23% wall to get home, and go braking down it to go places) meant I had to spend frequently on rim brake shoes and, eventually, rims. The frequent rain and mud makes it to the rim brake shoes and diminish braking power if you don't keep them clean.
That doesn't happen with hydraulics - clean them with alcohol, bleed them once each year and you're set. I agree, they're the greatest thing ever.
Swizec 14 hours ago [-]
> The frequent rain and mud makes it to the rim brake shoes and diminish braking power
I'll never forget when I was a kid (13 or so) going for a ride in the city during a downpour, slamming on the brakes because a pedestrian stepped out in front of me (mixed pedestrian/bike zone, no cars, we both assumed no-one else was dumb enough to be out), and ... nothing happened. Damn near shat my pants. Luckily the pedestrian saw me and jumped out of the way.
In retrospect that was too much downpour. Could literally see water spraying out my brakes. The hot cocoa after was fantastic tho
VBprogrammer 2 hours ago [-]
> In my experience hydraulic disc brakes require less maintenance than rim brakes.
Cable operated disc brakes seem to be a sweet spot IMHO.
rconti 13 hours ago [-]
I've only once in my life worn out a set of rim brake pads
I wore out the thin, small disc brake pads on my gravel bike in the first ~2000 miles. It didn't even _occur_ to me that the sound I was hearing was my brake pads being completely gone on what was a basically-new bike.
toast0 11 hours ago [-]
> I've only once in my life worn out a set of rim brake pads
I wore one set out... But I bought a new old stock bike that was made the same year as me... the tubes were ok and the tires are fine, but the brakes wore through very quickly. Probably 200 miles or less.
andrew_lettuce 11 hours ago [-]
Worse, I've worn out a rim when the sidewall basically delaminated after a few thousand kms and gritty conditions. After the UCI allowed disc brakes on gravel racers and manufacturers switched it made a great style of bike just about perfect
CorrectHorseBat 14 hours ago [-]
Hydraulic rim brakes also exist and they are amazing too
perrygeo 14 hours ago [-]
> Where is all this love for coaster brakes coming from?!
Childhood nostalgia? They are indeed terrible brakes from a riding perspective. But a) no cables or pads to mess up, b) beginner friendly and c) skidding. Great for kids riding around the neighborhood, the only real purpose.
Kaliboy 12 hours ago [-]
The average bike in the Netherlands has coaster brakes.
It's also great for getting on tall bikes at a standstill, since you can lock the pedal and use it to step up, you do need to quickly start cycling though.
MisterTea 13 hours ago [-]
> They have caused me numerous spills and scraped knees (due to the rear wheel locking up and skidding out from under me) and have done the same to my kids.
Skill issue ;-) My first bike I learned to ride on was a BMX with coaster brakes that was part of the fun! Rip down the street then slam the pedal back to leave skid marks. And who didn't love slowing down a bit, then slamming the coaster brake while turning the handle bars to do a sick rear sideways skid. My next bike was also a BMX with a rotor and front/rear pegs. That lead to way more spills trying to do stunts on the pegs or spin the handle bars. Never got good at the stunts part.
Might have worked better for a smaller, lighter me but I would like to give coaster brakes a go again on a proper sized BMX.
tjoff 13 hours ago [-]
Sure but you can do it easier and with more control with any other type of brake,from the basic V-style rim brakes to hydraulic disc brakes.
toast0 11 hours ago [-]
At least on the bikes I had access to growing up, rim brakes were hard to adjust so you could easily lock up the wheels, but not drag when not applied... Especially if you had safety levers. V brakes hadn't been invented yet: we just had side pull or center pull.
Coaster brakes didn't tend to noticably drag and were easy to lock up.
When I got access to v-brakes, yeah you can lock those up no problem... Lots of fun. A little tricky to learn modulation with when you're coming from older style rim brakes though.
locallost 13 minutes ago [-]
What a weird comment. A lot of people posting their use case for them, personally never fell from them, and in the end don't get that about maintaining hydraulic disc brakes. There is literally nothing to maintain except rarely just replacing the pads or the discs.
andrew_lettuce 11 hours ago [-]
I agree with you, coaster brakes suck. And losing your brakes if the chains drops is really serious, especially because it tends to happen when you need brakes the most.
Cable disc brakes have come a very long way and there are some decent models that require very little maintenance and work great.
Also for every skid you get on a coaster brake I'll raise you a nose Endo with the front disc brake!
Hobadee 1 hours ago [-]
> Also for every skid you get on a coaster brake I'll raise you a nose Endo with the front disc brake!
I can slam on my front disc brakes and not endo. Step 1: shift your weight all the way to the back. (hang off the back of the seat). Step 2: have front suspension.
Weight shift is mostly enough on its own, but front suspension eats up whatever endo tendency is left.
TacticalCoder 11 hours ago [-]
> Also for every skid you get on a coaster brake I'll raise you a nose Endo with the front disc brake!
This guy fox!
to11mtm 11 hours ago [-]
TBH I don't care for hydraulic disc brakes much.
My -favorite- setup for Discs, at least use to be, Avid BB7s with Avid Speed Dial levers, with Flak Jacket Housings.
That combination was super simple to 'dial in' (Hydraulic brakes tend to be a lot more inconsistent on 'feel' unless you are very persistent about bleeding and know how to use a disc tuning fork) and honestly had a lot less overall drag than I've experienced with most hydraulic discs. Replacing cables is way easier than re-doing hydraulic lines, also you don't have to worry as much about overheating janking up your fluid. Only drawback is, yes, make sure your cables are set up right and clamped down good.
But yes, Coaster brakes suck, especially since 'failure' means either rebuilding the wheel or outright replacing, because nope, not gonna do that sort of hub job.
bluGill 14 hours ago [-]
They were not impossible to control. It wasn't easy, but you quick got used to it and got enough. Partially that was learning to plan a head so you didn't need to much control. Or you learn to enjoy drifting the back wheels.
brikym 12 hours ago [-]
They're legally required in a lot of countries on small kids bikes and not easy to disable. I think the argument is that kids lack the strength to operate a hand brake effectively. Experts all seem to say that coaster brakes are terrible for safety and learning though.
andrew_lettuce 11 hours ago [-]
Hand strength is an issue with cheap, adult sized cable hand brakes but not an issue with smaller levers or even the cheapest hydraulic brakes.
The kids bikes that require them ate also made of mild steel and with more than my Enduro bike.
Don't buy a cheap, department store kids bike. You can get multiple kids through a quality bike and still sell it for like $100 less than you paid.
andrewshadura 12 hours ago [-]
Incorrect. They're perfect for everyday utility cycling. You just need to learn to use them properly.
switchbak 11 hours ago [-]
Personally, I wouldn't want to ride a bike with only rear brakes - or do you also have a front brake with these?
fransje26 1 hours ago [-]
> or do you also have a front brake with these?
No, not necessarily.
I've been using bikes with only rear brakes for years and years as city bikes, and never had a braking problem.
On the other hand, I've borrowed many bikes with conventional rim brakes and invariably had (serious) braking issues because they would be badly adjusted.
TacticalCoder 11 hours ago [-]
We used to call coaster brakes "torpedo" when I was a kid and, yup, they're totally horrible.
If you've got coaster brakes I don't even know if you can learn to trackstand (you need to both slightly pedal forward and brake, and adjust by slightly pedaling backward): trackstand looks like you're idle but micro-adjustments are constantly happening.
Then I take it probably could wheelie a bicycle with coaster brakes but I fear it'd be hard: same things, you do micro-adjustements and they're not only done with the rear brake. I'm pretty sure I do pedal backward a bit when I do wheelies.
And when I readjust the position of my feet on a bicycle: I do it while backpedalling.
Last time I used a bike with coaster brakes I realized how dependent I became on being able to pedal backwards.
to11mtm 10 hours ago [-]
One of the earliest 'mountain biking' trails, before real mountain bikes existed, is called Repack because they were using Coaster brakes and you'd basically have to rebiuld/repack the coaster brake hub with grease after a run due to all the heat forcing the hubs to expel.
walthamstow 1 hours ago [-]
Coasters are great if you have good cycle infra, don't go very fast and don't have to go up or down hills. Which explains why they're so popular in NL.
zoom6628 6 hours ago [-]
Brilliant for folks in flat cities riding to and from work. That's the environment in which they got popular 100y ago. For hills def need rim brakes or discs for flexibility of use. BMX racing in early 80s we used the lightest rim brakes and levers we could find. I had couple of times snapping the levers and even the brake arms before fitting with really strong machined aluminium ones which lasted me 3 years before I stopped riding.
c0balt 2 hours ago [-]
Coaster brakes are ime one of the best brakes for beginners/intermediates because they can be a reliable backup in addition to rim/disc brakes.
Had my rim brakes at least once lose a lot of efficacy during a large downpour and coaster brakes make a great backup for extra breaking power. They sure do like to lockup your rear wheel but that is still better than the alternative of only having very weak rear/front breaks.
deepsun 14 hours ago [-]
> The coaster brake also can be prone to locking up the wheels and causing the tire to skid. For kids this is an advantage, since they enjoy putting bikes into a sideways skid.
Damn well it was! I remember we used to play tag on bikes. But when we switched to hand brakes, it became impossible, as you need a free hand and speed control at the same time.
SoftTalker 14 hours ago [-]
Yep I wore holes in several tires doing skids on my Schwinn when I was a young boy. My father got somewhat annoyed at it but used it as an opportunity to teach me how to change a tire and threatened to withold from my allowance the costs of any more tire replacements. I can't remember if that actually ever happened.
13 hours ago [-]
bariumbitmap 15 hours ago [-]
> The disadvantages of coaster brakes are that the pedals cannot be adjusted while standing over the bicycle frame.
Another disadvantage not mentioned in the post is that with coaster brakes the pedals can get trapped by the kickstand. I don't remember the details because this was a long time ago, but I accidentally found myself in a situation where I couldn't pedal forward because the kickstand was in the way, and couldn't pedal backward because the brakes engaged. I don't remember how I fixed it.
thesuitonym 14 hours ago [-]
You can get out of this situation by rolling the bike backwards. Since the clutch is engaged it will also move the pedals in the reverse direction.
Thanks for unlocking that memory for me, it's been decades since I had to know that.
bariumbitmap 12 hours ago [-]
> You can get out of this situation by rolling the bike backwards
A-ha, I think that's why I ended up doing.
And thanks to you as well!
nkrisc 14 hours ago [-]
You can adjust the pedals while standing, it’s just awkward.
Take your weight off the seat, grab the back of the seat behind you and lift enough so the rear wheel loses traction and then you can push the pedals forward a bit.
Not ideal, but possible.
pak9rabid 14 hours ago [-]
Probably had to unbolt the brake bar to get it to spin freely backwards?
vjvjvjvjghv 14 hours ago [-]
I had this sometimes happen as a kid. I think we mostly solved it with some old fashioned violence.
willismichael 14 hours ago [-]
Either that or unbolt the kick stand.
Kaliboy 12 hours ago [-]
My friends. The kick stand stows by moving towards the back, making it possible to push it in during the normal cycling motion.
So if its in the way, they're backpedaling.
The way to solve it is to lift the bike's rear wheel and pedal like normal. That's it. No unbolting needed.
SoftTalker 14 hours ago [-]
On some bikes it was welded to the frame.
vantassell 14 hours ago [-]
Biggest advantage is that they keep your hands free while braking.
tokai 1 hours ago [-]
If you are skidding out using a coaster brake something is seriously wrong with your bike. Time to go get a hub service done.
dnemmers 12 hours ago [-]
"The coaster brake also can be prone to locking up the wheels and causing the tire to skid. For kids this is an advantage, since they enjoy putting bikes into a sideways skid. This seemingly is a one of the requisite skills for youthful riders, especially but not exclusively boys."
This is interesting, I recall having some of these as a kid.
I'd say the key drawback not mentioned is that, in many riding conditions (such as but not limited to riding when in close proximity to vehicles, riding in high wind, riding in proximity to severe drops or road discontinuities, riding with heavy loads, riding downhill with luggage encountering sharp bends, repositioning legs for a hard ascent, etc.) you cannot always freely alter your physical stance to apply additional pressure to the braking system (as it may upset other concerns) nor can you afford a short latency to reposition to your stronger leg before applying the brake (or a short burst of climbing on difficult terrain).
So while functional in most conditions, I'd say they are in fact objectively inferior in terms of latency and control and thus safety and utility in many realistic conditions.
What could be an improvement (and may have been made already) is a speed-gated clutch, that is to say, slow reverse is permissible but a burst above the gate speed enables braking. This could solve a minority of the issues in terms of control at the cost of complexity.
analog31 14 hours ago [-]
Daily urban commuter here. I've had coaster brakes in the past. Bendix, Shimano, and Sturmey-Archer. I was attracted to the simplicity and lack of exposed cables. All were well maintained, by me, on wheels that I built.
Concurring with what you say, I learned all of the obscure failure modes of coaster brakes the hard way. Today I would not put them on anything but a maybe a kids' bike or beach cruiser. You can't guarantee that your feet will be in the right place at the right time to stop the bike.
Among other failures, I've experienced coaster brake "fading" on a descent when my house was at the top of a hill.
Adding a front brake is an improvement but not a panacea. You really need reliable two-wheel braking. It's not just for redundancy but for actual control of the bike during hard braking.
deepsun 14 hours ago [-]
For cycle tourism I would have the coast brake AND a front wheel hand brake. Coast brake is much more resilient to elements (dirt/rain/oil), which is a major thing in bike tourism. And it's much more convenient to have one hand free to use a navigation tool, holding a camera, adjusting luggage, all while being in control of the braking.
contingencies 14 hours ago [-]
On resiliency, most people cycle tour with disk brakes. This is primarily because the additional weight of the luggage adds inertia to a downhill scenario necessitating a larger braking surface and better torque control. Whether using vee or disk brakes, you still get redundancy (two wheels means two brakes with two separate control systems) and any experienced cyclist is familiar with compensating for the loss or relative efficiency of two brakes in a failed, fouled or poorly tuned state. Occasionally adjusting a brake is not a big issue, nor is changing a brake pad. Packing a spare set of contact pads is normal in touring.
Few cycle tourists seem to optimize for using navigation tools or holding cameras while riding. Oldschool Europeans used to mount maps on their handlebar bags, but I haven't seen that in yonks. It might be common on a short-hop or produced-for-youtube thing, but to my mind it's not really the same mental space as touring, which anyone who has done it would understand: long distances, often daily goals or pre-nav, strong engagement with topographic change and natural environment = ~no need for while-riding lookups. Sure, if the road is well-surfaced and there's nobody on it, or it's a phone-photographed quickie: go for it. But unless it's a fleeting moment, most people I know would stop, have a drink, perform any lookups, maybe take a photo, then set off again. F=ma. Luggage means you have relatively large m. Fiddling with your camera while riding can be a bad idea.
pak9rabid 14 hours ago [-]
Wow, I was just the other day wondering how these work. Far more complicated than I had expected, but a very cool mechanism!
BorisMelnik 14 hours ago [-]
I love coaster brakes! its one of the few parts of a bicycle I cannot fix (that, and wheels/spokes/truing)
asdff 14 hours ago [-]
Wheel truing is easier than you'd guess. Watch the park tool video then just take your time. You can do it on your bike with some jerry rigged feelers (e.g zip ties) attached to your chain stays.
jmclnx 15 hours ago [-]
These brakes are far more complicated then I was expecting. But do last forever.
I have hydraulic disc brakes on my bike, and they are the greatest thing ever! Yeah, they require maintenance, but totally worth it.
This might be a Nordic thing, but being able to handle rear wheel lockups is a necessary skill when driving on winter roads. Once you overlook a section of black ice, not even the nicest hydraulic disc brakes will be gentle enough.
My experience with black ice and bikes, is to unexpectedly fall flat on my face because the front wheel loses all grip. Without even getting to the point of trying to brake..
Living on a hill (like I had to go up a ~150m 23% wall to get home, and go braking down it to go places) meant I had to spend frequently on rim brake shoes and, eventually, rims. The frequent rain and mud makes it to the rim brake shoes and diminish braking power if you don't keep them clean.
That doesn't happen with hydraulics - clean them with alcohol, bleed them once each year and you're set. I agree, they're the greatest thing ever.
I'll never forget when I was a kid (13 or so) going for a ride in the city during a downpour, slamming on the brakes because a pedestrian stepped out in front of me (mixed pedestrian/bike zone, no cars, we both assumed no-one else was dumb enough to be out), and ... nothing happened. Damn near shat my pants. Luckily the pedestrian saw me and jumped out of the way.
In retrospect that was too much downpour. Could literally see water spraying out my brakes. The hot cocoa after was fantastic tho
Cable operated disc brakes seem to be a sweet spot IMHO.
I wore one set out... But I bought a new old stock bike that was made the same year as me... the tubes were ok and the tires are fine, but the brakes wore through very quickly. Probably 200 miles or less.
Childhood nostalgia? They are indeed terrible brakes from a riding perspective. But a) no cables or pads to mess up, b) beginner friendly and c) skidding. Great for kids riding around the neighborhood, the only real purpose.
It's also great for getting on tall bikes at a standstill, since you can lock the pedal and use it to step up, you do need to quickly start cycling though.
Skill issue ;-) My first bike I learned to ride on was a BMX with coaster brakes that was part of the fun! Rip down the street then slam the pedal back to leave skid marks. And who didn't love slowing down a bit, then slamming the coaster brake while turning the handle bars to do a sick rear sideways skid. My next bike was also a BMX with a rotor and front/rear pegs. That lead to way more spills trying to do stunts on the pegs or spin the handle bars. Never got good at the stunts part.
Might have worked better for a smaller, lighter me but I would like to give coaster brakes a go again on a proper sized BMX.
Coaster brakes didn't tend to noticably drag and were easy to lock up.
When I got access to v-brakes, yeah you can lock those up no problem... Lots of fun. A little tricky to learn modulation with when you're coming from older style rim brakes though.
Cable disc brakes have come a very long way and there are some decent models that require very little maintenance and work great.
Also for every skid you get on a coaster brake I'll raise you a nose Endo with the front disc brake!
I can slam on my front disc brakes and not endo. Step 1: shift your weight all the way to the back. (hang off the back of the seat). Step 2: have front suspension.
Weight shift is mostly enough on its own, but front suspension eats up whatever endo tendency is left.
This guy fox!
My -favorite- setup for Discs, at least use to be, Avid BB7s with Avid Speed Dial levers, with Flak Jacket Housings.
That combination was super simple to 'dial in' (Hydraulic brakes tend to be a lot more inconsistent on 'feel' unless you are very persistent about bleeding and know how to use a disc tuning fork) and honestly had a lot less overall drag than I've experienced with most hydraulic discs. Replacing cables is way easier than re-doing hydraulic lines, also you don't have to worry as much about overheating janking up your fluid. Only drawback is, yes, make sure your cables are set up right and clamped down good.
But yes, Coaster brakes suck, especially since 'failure' means either rebuilding the wheel or outright replacing, because nope, not gonna do that sort of hub job.
The kids bikes that require them ate also made of mild steel and with more than my Enduro bike.
Don't buy a cheap, department store kids bike. You can get multiple kids through a quality bike and still sell it for like $100 less than you paid.
No, not necessarily.
I've been using bikes with only rear brakes for years and years as city bikes, and never had a braking problem.
On the other hand, I've borrowed many bikes with conventional rim brakes and invariably had (serious) braking issues because they would be badly adjusted.
If you've got coaster brakes I don't even know if you can learn to trackstand (you need to both slightly pedal forward and brake, and adjust by slightly pedaling backward): trackstand looks like you're idle but micro-adjustments are constantly happening.
Then I take it probably could wheelie a bicycle with coaster brakes but I fear it'd be hard: same things, you do micro-adjustements and they're not only done with the rear brake. I'm pretty sure I do pedal backward a bit when I do wheelies.
And when I readjust the position of my feet on a bicycle: I do it while backpedalling.
Last time I used a bike with coaster brakes I realized how dependent I became on being able to pedal backwards.
Had my rim brakes at least once lose a lot of efficacy during a large downpour and coaster brakes make a great backup for extra breaking power. They sure do like to lockup your rear wheel but that is still better than the alternative of only having very weak rear/front breaks.
Damn well it was! I remember we used to play tag on bikes. But when we switched to hand brakes, it became impossible, as you need a free hand and speed control at the same time.
Another disadvantage not mentioned in the post is that with coaster brakes the pedals can get trapped by the kickstand. I don't remember the details because this was a long time ago, but I accidentally found myself in a situation where I couldn't pedal forward because the kickstand was in the way, and couldn't pedal backward because the brakes engaged. I don't remember how I fixed it.
Thanks for unlocking that memory for me, it's been decades since I had to know that.
A-ha, I think that's why I ended up doing.
And thanks to you as well!
Take your weight off the seat, grab the back of the seat behind you and lift enough so the rear wheel loses traction and then you can push the pedals forward a bit.
Not ideal, but possible.
So if its in the way, they're backpedaling.
The way to solve it is to lift the bike's rear wheel and pedal like normal. That's it. No unbolting needed.
Very accurate.
This is interesting, I recall having some of these as a kid.
I'd say the key drawback not mentioned is that, in many riding conditions (such as but not limited to riding when in close proximity to vehicles, riding in high wind, riding in proximity to severe drops or road discontinuities, riding with heavy loads, riding downhill with luggage encountering sharp bends, repositioning legs for a hard ascent, etc.) you cannot always freely alter your physical stance to apply additional pressure to the braking system (as it may upset other concerns) nor can you afford a short latency to reposition to your stronger leg before applying the brake (or a short burst of climbing on difficult terrain).
So while functional in most conditions, I'd say they are in fact objectively inferior in terms of latency and control and thus safety and utility in many realistic conditions.
What could be an improvement (and may have been made already) is a speed-gated clutch, that is to say, slow reverse is permissible but a burst above the gate speed enables braking. This could solve a minority of the issues in terms of control at the cost of complexity.
Concurring with what you say, I learned all of the obscure failure modes of coaster brakes the hard way. Today I would not put them on anything but a maybe a kids' bike or beach cruiser. You can't guarantee that your feet will be in the right place at the right time to stop the bike.
Among other failures, I've experienced coaster brake "fading" on a descent when my house was at the top of a hill.
Adding a front brake is an improvement but not a panacea. You really need reliable two-wheel braking. It's not just for redundancy but for actual control of the bike during hard braking.
Few cycle tourists seem to optimize for using navigation tools or holding cameras while riding. Oldschool Europeans used to mount maps on their handlebar bags, but I haven't seen that in yonks. It might be common on a short-hop or produced-for-youtube thing, but to my mind it's not really the same mental space as touring, which anyone who has done it would understand: long distances, often daily goals or pre-nav, strong engagement with topographic change and natural environment = ~no need for while-riding lookups. Sure, if the road is well-surfaced and there's nobody on it, or it's a phone-photographed quickie: go for it. But unless it's a fleeting moment, most people I know would stop, have a drink, perform any lookups, maybe take a photo, then set off again. F=ma. Luggage means you have relatively large m. Fiddling with your camera while riding can be a bad idea.